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    Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

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    Magnum: Hold onto or throw out?

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    Total Votes: 17
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    Chef Linguini
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    Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  Chef Linguini on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:21 pm

    We have to consider if we actually want the Magnum in the settings in the first place - yes, it is a very skilled weapon and it fills that gap in close-range combat that really has been missing in Halo for a long time. But unfortunately, the spread on the thing is massive. Like, massive (easily greater than H3 BR spread). If you don't believe me try shooting with the thing from Flag to Flag on Countdown - sometimes it will perfect 4 shot and at others you will empty the entire clip and not get a kill. Such a spread really isn't good for competitive play.

    It also defeats the purpose of no-bloom - what is the point of finally getting the consistency of a straight shooting DMR if we want to add in a weapon that has spread greater than a max-bloomed DMR?

    You could argue that the Pistol is consistent at close range - which it is - and therefore should be used. The Pistol is fantastic and extremely skillful at close range. But no one is going to play with an honour rule of not shooting the Pistol at long range. And when that happens, you will get cross map 4's one time and absolutely nothing the next - that inconsistency that we don't want in competitive play.


    Assuming that the Pistol doesn't have these traits (or simply outright ignoring them) to answer your question, I like 60 seconds. Only have about two on the map and have two spare clips. The DMR (especially in a 4v4 environment) is more than capable of being able to hold its own off spawn but there is still a nice element of going slightly out of your way (possibly ceding map control briefly) to pick up a weapon that will give you a slight advantage later. There is nothing wrong in rewarding a smart player with a small advantage if they choose to take advantage of it.

    ~b0b43

    TheTrueHaloMaster
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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  TheTrueHaloMaster on Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:08 pm

    I agree with what Yoseph said int he pms. CEA is just around the corner, along with a new pistol. Maybe the 3sk pistol would be the best starting weapon, maybe it won't. Till then, I think it would be better to not include the pistol/NR until we can test everything.
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    Kurtiz
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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  Kurtiz on Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:43 pm

    Hah yeah I read that post by bob as well and loved it. Totally agree.

    I think that for v1 we should remove the pistol for said reasons, then test out the CEA pistol for later versions.

    Yoseph
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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  Yoseph on Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:20 pm

    There in current v1 settings, it would only further delay release to take them out. CEA is just around the corner and we'll see what we're working with at that point. For now lets enjoy the pistol we have as it is wicked fun, skillful, and adds some variety to gameplay.

    TheTrueHaloMaster
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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  TheTrueHaloMaster on Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:52 am

    Yoseph wrote:There in current v1 settings, it would only further delay release to take them out. CEA is just around the corner and we'll see what we're working with at that point. For now lets enjoy the pistol we have as it is wicked fun, skillful, and adds some variety to gameplay.

    Yoseph, honestly, I don't think its that hard to take out. We still have a couple hours and we should definitely remove it. People will not like it trust me.
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    Kurtiz
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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  Kurtiz on Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:05 pm

    I agree actually, it does just add randomness like bob said. The spread on the gun is ridiculous and it can effectively allow people to get away with a lucky 'spam' like the dmr used to. If we are going for full on competitive, this needs to be removed as it adds luck.


    Last edited by Kurtiz on Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Subtle

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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  Subtle on Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:45 pm

    I would like to see it kept as a power weapon on certain maps... For me, the pistol is kind of like the plasma pistol: You would rarely use it long range, but at close range it can really do some significant damage, so that players actually contemplate picking it up. It's definitely more useful than the needle rifle, anyway.

    As for the CE pistol.. I really have no idea how this gun is going to play out, so we will have to see. Hopefully it will have a large skill gap just like it did in the original game.
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    Chef Linguini
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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  Chef Linguini on Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:04 pm

    Subtle wrote:I would like to see it kept as a power weapon on certain maps... For me, the pistol is kind of like the plasma pistol: You would rarely use it long range, but at close range it can really do some significant damage, so that players actually contemplate picking it up. It's definitely more useful than the needle rifle, anyway.

    As for the CE pistol.. I really have no idea how this gun is going to play out, so we will have to see. Hopefully it will have a large skill gap just like it did in the original game.

    Yeah I agree, but the spread sucks. We shouldn't allow such randomness if it can easily be removed.

    I guess the question to ask is, whatever benefits the pistol brings, do they outweigh the negative effects of the spread?

    If we then consider what the shotgun can do (with no extra clips) the pistol can be left out, for now.

    thanks for input
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    Rev

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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  Rev on Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:13 pm

    Maybe we should look at the pistol as a power weapon and treat it as such. Like on Pit put it in long hall or on countdown put it at S2. It is better than shotgun because it will not promote camping, and it is skillful.
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    DaRkPaToU

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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  DaRkPaToU on Sat Oct 22, 2011 8:23 pm

    If the CEA one turns out absolutely terrible and cant be used at all... (i doubt this)
    Due to the skill of this weapon at close range, I think more testing should be done with this pistol.
    I was thinking maybe:
    - Semi power weapon with a 1 min spawn
    - Only 1 or 2 clips at spawn
    - Spawn locations which you would tend to control and not leave, for example Ring 2 on Sanctuary. I'm thinking in this situation, you wouldn't want to leave Ring 2 because of the fast kill speed of the 4SK DMR by risking shooting at mid to long range and most probably not hitting many pistol shots because of the spread.

    TheTrueHaloMaster
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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  TheTrueHaloMaster on Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:03 pm

    Rev wrote:Maybe we should look at the pistol as a power weapon and treat it as such. Like on Pit put it in long hall or on countdown put it at S2. It is better than shotgun because it will not promote camping, and it is skillful.

    True. I like this idea. What does everybody else think?
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    DaRkPaToU

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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  DaRkPaToU on Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:05 pm

    TheTrueHaloMaster wrote:
    Rev wrote:Maybe we should look at the pistol as a power weapon and treat it as such. Like on Pit put it in long hall or on countdown put it at S2. It is better than shotgun because it will not promote camping, and it is skillful.

    True. I like this idea. What does everybody else think?

    Definitely should be tested
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    Chef Linguini
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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  Chef Linguini on Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:09 pm

    TheTrueHaloMaster wrote:
    Rev wrote:Maybe we should look at the pistol as a power weapon and treat it as such. Like on Pit put it in long hall or on countdown put it at S2. It is better than shotgun because it will not promote camping, and it is skillful.

    True. I like this idea. What does everybody else think?

    I mean yes I agree, the pistol is a great weapon and probably should be treated more like a power weapon. But until we can get the spread fixed, I think it should be left out. Too much randomness IMO.

    Besides, the shotty can kinda fill the same roll, it's just a far narrower role. The shotgun may promote camping, we'll have to test and see. But on 4sk settings it's hardly OP. It's less of a power weapon IMO, and more of a handy secondary that you may pick up if you pass by it.

    aNesthet1K

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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  aNesthet1K on Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:28 pm

    Yeah I'm with Chef. We need to remove randomness... and the pistol is random.

    bunniesz23

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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  bunniesz23 on Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:51 pm

    Wait for the CE pistol to come out. Until then I agree that the pistol spread is far too inconsistent to have any competitive merit.

    TheTrueHaloMaster
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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  TheTrueHaloMaster on Sat Oct 22, 2011 11:59 pm

    bunniesz23 wrote:Wait for the CE pistol to come out. Until then I agree that the pistol spread is far too inconsistent to have any competitive merit.

    I think that's what we will be doing guys. However, once CEA comes out, and I am fairly optimistic, we will be testing the pistols thoroughly.

    Masti101

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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  Masti101 on Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:05 pm

    Pistol needs to go since the spread is huge, but if the CEA Pistol isn't random we should have it as a power weapon imo.

    The Final Ronin

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    Re: Magnum: Hold onto it or Throw it Out (as the Magnum is right now)

    Post  The Final Ronin on Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:22 am

    When playing ZB settings on the TU Beta playlist the Pistol is a 4sk while the DMR is a 5sk, how many shots kill would the pistol be, a ZB pistol feels OP at close range. I think the idea of a CE Pistol as a power weapon may be interesting. I think the current pistol should be left out and later we can test the CE Pistol and the new CEA maps.

    Thanks

    The Final Ronin

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