Through constant feedback and discussion, GoldPRO settings for Halo Reach continuously strive to find the best settings possible for the competitive Halo community. V2 Out Now.


    Ideas for V2 settings

    Kurtiz
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    Post  Kurtiz on Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:24 pm

    So far this project has been going well, the majority of feedback is positive but there definitely are things that need fixing. Below is a list of topics to talk about regarding changes to be made to v2. We want to know if you agree/disagree with each proposed change, or if you have any ideas for changes yourself. Thanks.

    1)Change OS to have only a 3second invincibility period instead of a 5second one. This is enough time to charge to 1 extra layer exactly, instead of the 1.7ish amount in v1. Also remove the 10% movement nerf since it has lost strength.

    2)Release 5sk variants as well as 4sk ones. Many people have complained about 4sk or stated that they are unsure if they like 4sk or 5sk better. While the GoldPRO team strongly believes that 4sk is necessary for these settings to work properly, we also feel that we must test everything, especially if it is what the community is asking for.
    We want gameplays of both variants though. This is a huge issue and we need as much support behind each setting as possible so that we can make a fair decision on the matter. Once we have a good amount of gameplays of both 4sk and 5sk, we will post them up and hold a community vote.

    3)Change weapon respawn timers:
    Power-ups - 1:00
    Sniper Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Shotgun - 1:30
    Rocket Launcher - 2:00

    This is to increase map movement and reduce camping. For example on Countdown TS with a camo placed outside on a 1 minute timer, and sniper spawning S2 every minute and a half, camping the attics/radios will become a lot harder to do and will be a lot less rewarding.
    This will also help to stagger the spawning of weapons; when all are on multiples of 1minute, it becomes very easy to have everything spawning at the same time. Which doesn't really solve the problem that power items are there for. All it does it create a period of chaos, followed by nothing for the next minute or two, then chaos again.
    The purpose of power items is to create map flow "rockets are coming up in 30secs, lets take control of that area now".
    This should also help alleviate the issue some players have had with too many shotguns on the map, as there will be an extra 30seconds before each spawn.

    4)Change weapon placement to better compliment each map's playstyle.
    Countdown- Camo outside instead of OS for TS
    Zealot- Camo placed in pink/holos instead of GL
    Nexus- Put OS at gold, 1 sniper in each base.
    The Pit- Camo long hall
    Sanctuary- OS instead of Camo for TS, set to not spawn at the start.

    5)Change Sanctuary to be more like H2; more rocks, not as wide, more columns etc. This is so that the map isn't so open and flag runners can have cover while running the flag so they don't die so easily from respawners.


    These changes are in no way set in stone, please provide feedback and add any changes that you think would work. Thank you.
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    Yoseph
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    Post  Yoseph on Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:23 pm

    Kurtiz wrote:So far this project has been going well, the majority of feedback is positive but there definitely are things that need fixing. Below is a list of topics to talk about regarding changes to be made to v2. We want to know if you agree/disagree with each proposed change, or if you have any ideas for changes yourself. Thanks.

    1)Change OS to have only a 3second invincibility period instead of a 5second one. This is enough time to charge to 1 extra layer exactly, instead of the 1.7ish amount in v1. Also remove the 10% movement nerf since it has lost strength.

    2)Release 5sk variants as well as 4sk ones. Many people have complained about 4sk or stated that they are unsure if they like 4sk or 5sk better. While the GoldPRO team strongly believes that 4sk is necessary for these settings to work properly, we also feel that we must test everything, especially if it is what the community is asking for.
    We want gameplays of both variants though. This is a huge issue and we need as much support behind each setting as possible so that we can make a fair decision on the matter. Once we have a good amount of gameplays of both 4sk and 5sk, we will post them up and hold a community vote.

    3)Change weapon respawn timers:
    Power-ups - 1:00
    Sniper Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Shotgun - 1:30
    Rocket Launcher - 2:00

    This is to increase map movement and reduce camping. For example on Countdown TS with a camo placed outside on a 1 minute timer, and sniper spawning S2 every minute and a half, camping the attics/radios will become a lot harder to do and will be a lot less rewarding.
    This will also help to stagger the spawning of weapons; when all are on multiples of 1minute, it becomes very easy to have everything spawning at the same time. Which doesn't really solve the problem that power items are there for. All it does it create a period of chaos, followed by nothing for the next minute or two, then chaos again.
    The purpose of power items is to create map flow "rockets are coming up in 30secs, lets take control of that area now".
    This should also help alleviate the issue some players have had with too many shotguns on the map, as there will be an extra 30seconds before each spawn.

    4)Change weapon placement to better compliment each map's playstyle.
    Countdown- Camo outside instead of OS for TS
    Zealot- Camo placed in pink/holos instead of GL
    Nexus- Put OS at gold, 1 sniper in each base.
    The Pit- Camo long hall
    Sanctuary- OS instead of Camo for TS, set to not spawn at the start.

    5)Change Sanctuary to be more like H2; more rocks, not as wide, more columns etc. This is so that the map isn't so open and flag runners can have cover while running the flag so they don't die so easily from respawners.


    These changes are in no way set in stone, please provide feedback and add any changes that you think would work. Thank you.

    1) Ideal invulnerability at the expense of shield layers, I feel like this is going in circles and we'll get back to the OS just not mattering that much. I will definitely test it. But I think using a Nav is a MUCH better option. The OS needs to be powerful to draw attention and promote aggression. Otherwise you find yourself in a situation where you'd rather not give up position and it's more beneficial to bait the guy and let him have the OS. Again, I'll test it but I insist on testing the Nav as I've played with it and there really isn't an issue with invulnerability if everyone knows where the guy is plus the residual effects to the timer and the multiple benefits it gives gameplay and fair game balancing. I think a custom with both 300% damage resistance, a yet to be determined damage modifier increase, and(if we want to use camo) a nav.

    2) People are welcome to set the damage to 5sk if that's how they prefer to play. Fact is that's not testing anything. The current map balancing(timers and weapon placement) was built with 5sk in mind and likely favors that in some ways. 4sk has not met its potential, 5sk really has. Sandbox expansion is kinda out the window, every weapon would have to be treated like at least a semi power weapon. Needle rifle would definitely have to go but other than that I think MLG just about nailed 5sk settings. I won't stop anybody from trying different things out with 5sk, this is just how I see it, 4sk is a new game where we have a "counter all" effective utility weapon. 5sk is a more consistent version of the same game we've been playing with a utility weapon that falls short and forces us to use a minimalistic mindset towards the sandbox.

    3) Respawn timers are the single biggest problem with current v1 settings. The kill times are fast and therefore battles are decided quickly meaning we need other reasons to move around the map that aren't reacting to another player. I often feel like I'm waiting for something to even be close to coming up in current settings.

    2 minute rocket for sure
    30 second snipe if nuetral
    1 minute if there are base specific snipes
    2 minute if still being used as a power weapon(Sanctuary)
    Same philosophy for shotty and concussion as I plan on bringing them into the sandbox in immediate test maps
    Powerups 1

    these changes will drastically increase the pace of the game for the better I'm very confident

    4) I think 4sk could allow us to uniform the maps for all gametypes, although I don't know that this is the best option yet.
    5) I'd like to see some skilled forgers play with ApK's sanc and get that perfected. It's scale and larger rocks pretty much fixed the problems with flag cap time currently.
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    Post  Chef Linguini on Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:56 pm

    1.)I'll test this 3 sec OS and I think if it spawned every minute it would work fine. I agree the nav is the best way to go. I'll try it out and see how people react.

    2.)I think with better maps 4sk will play MUCH better. Playing 4sk on some current maps just doesn't feel right, making people think 5sk is better.

    3.
    2 minute rocket for sure
    30 second snipe if nuetral
    1 minute if there are base specific snipes
    2 minute if still being used as a power weapon(Sanctuary)
    Same philosophy for shotty and concussion as I plan on bringing them into the sandbox in immediate test maps
    Powerups 1

    5.) I'm working on apk's sanctuary. Smile I'm adding almost all of the rocks that were in H2.

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    Post  aNesthet1K on Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:00 pm

    Man! I can't wait to try and split the already split community!
    4sk AND 5sk? Mental.

    One at a time for long periods of time each. Only logical conclusion.
    Kurtiz
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    Post  Kurtiz on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:43 pm

    The idea is to keep more people around.

    We will of course focus solely on balancing everything around 4sk, but when we are done release an identical version except 5sk to keep the stubborn ones happy. We then carry on like usual, and try to get gameplays up of each. If 4sk truly is the best way to go, it will become obvious between the two sets of videos wont it? Which will become an awesome tool for converting people.

    One thing I think is wrong with the current OS, is the sheer amount of time compared to the average kill time on 4sk settings, which the player is invincible. Even on 3 seconds hes invincible for more than 2 kills worth of time, which is a lot.

    The 3sec one will still be stronger than the current, and if spawning every minute you don't want it to be super strong anyway.
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    Post  Sebastian on Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:26 pm

    If it's 1-layer every minute, it will behave more like a supplemental pick-up that just bolsters your overall damage output throughout the game. It will be more of a skill to remember to pick it up than to necessarily push for it and win it every time.

    That's not a necessarily good or bad thing. There's not much in the game that really works that way. Something like a shotgun, jetpack or PP can be situationally useful or powerful, but it will always function as a tool. An OS, no matter how small, is an incontrovertible advantage. It would behave sort of like a Zerg inject in Starcraft 2 - the hard part is remembering to do it in the first place, as much as possible, to add just that little extra tweak of power. The closest thing in Reach is maybe the GL.

    That's all a long way of saying that 1-layer OS gives you 1 free kill at best. That could be an interesting mechanic, but if we want to have another object that forces people to hold down a position and fight for it, a 1-layer OS is not that object.


    As I suggested in the Countdown thread, I think we should seriously start looking at OS positions that force the player to burn most of their 5 seconds in a lift, falling somewhere or walking back to the action from some remote teleporter exit. The countdown example is to have an OS spawn in the pipes that lead to Tri, and then block the side lifts so you must land on Balcony. It gives you the same final position as if you had picked it up on Balcony, but it subtracts 3 or 4 seconds from your invincibility.
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    Post  Sultxn on Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:39 pm

    I know it puts you guys in a tough situation when people are suggesting 5sk. You don't want to ignore those people, but at the same time you know 4sk hasn't been tested enough. I just played my first 6 games of GoldPRO. While it felt quite different than what I'm used to, I can't say anything negative about it because I simply haven't played it enough yet. Over a year of "vanilla reach" gameplay is implanted into my head, and it will take time (and an open mind) to shed those old habits. Of course 4sk is going to play differently, but "different" is not the same as "wrong" or "bad."

    Definitely excited for v2. My thoughts...
    -I'd like to keep the 5 seconds of invincibility, with waypoint added. I got melted pretty good a couple times with that 1.66 oversheild, and didn't feel like it was overpowered. Theoretically, if the overshield guy runs into 2 guys, by the time he 4-shots one of them he will have eaten 8 shots and be below normal shields, allowing the other player to win the gunfight. This means an overshielded player could fight 1v2 and at least get a kill before dying. With only one extra layer of shields (ie 3 second invincibility), then if he ran into 2 guys, it's an even fight and he could potentially die without finishing one of them off.

    -I think faster weapon spawns is a good idea. With the speed this game plays at, and the speed kills are racked up, it seems sensible to speed up the power weapon cycling. Powerups too. It just felt like there were long breaks while waiting for the power items.
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    Post  Rev on Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:56 pm

    I would no make rockets spawn any more frequent than 2 min but lets really play a lot of v1 and test maps before we even talk v2

    I would love to test the maps but i literally have less than 20 friends(Just people that are actually my friends) and i need some new ones. I removed my entire list except 20 people...
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    Post  Kurtiz on Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:59 pm

    What if we just left OS the same, and left in on 2min spawner while speeding everything else up?
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    Post  Chef Linguini on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:00 am

    Current OS needs to go. 5 seconds is too much. It's nice to have those 5 seconds, but it feels cheap. If you don't have it, it's just ridiculous. Especially with 4sk.

    300% resistance for 30 seconds seems to be the best OS we have currently.
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    Post  aPK on Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:59 pm

    30 second respawn time is absolutely absurd. There is no reason for it to spawn any faster than 1 minute with no spare clips.

    Concussion Rifle is just terrible and breeds close to no smart gameplay while using it. The only option is to spam, and when you include the fact that it traps players, the weapon is a no-no.

    I'd also appreciate it if when you guys have suggestions to fix my version of Sanctuary, that you give me a heads up so that I can make changes.
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    Post  Chef Linguini on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:06 pm

    aPK wrote:30 second respawn time is absolutely absurd. There is no reason for it to spawn any faster than 1 minute with no spare clips.

    Concussion Rifle is just terrible and breeds close to no smart gameplay while using it. The only option is to spam, and when you include the fact that it traps players, the weapon is a no-no.

    I'd also appreciate it if when you guys have suggestions to fix my version of Sanctuary, that you give me a heads up so that I can make changes.

    Ok I'll let you know about suggestions to fix sanctuary. I just remember asking you if we could use/change your sanctuary at one point while we were messing around in sanctuary forge and you said it was fine.

    The biggest changes I'm thinking of (and I made them until my version was saved over by a countdown variant somehow :/ )

    2 rocks around bon, one rock in front of snipe (more like H2)

    Indented Bon

    Everything colored
    aPK
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    Post  aPK on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:31 pm

    Chef Linguini wrote:
    aPK wrote:30 second respawn time is absolutely absurd. There is no reason for it to spawn any faster than 1 minute with no spare clips.

    Concussion Rifle is just terrible and breeds close to no smart gameplay while using it. The only option is to spam, and when you include the fact that it traps players, the weapon is a no-no.

    I'd also appreciate it if when you guys have suggestions to fix my version of Sanctuary, that you give me a heads up so that I can make changes.

    Ok I'll let you know about suggestions to fix sanctuary. I just remember asking you if we could use/change your sanctuary at one point while we were messing around in sanctuary forge and you said it was fine.

    The biggest changes I'm thinking of (and I made them until my version was saved over by a countdown variant somehow :/ )

    2 rocks around bon, one rock in front of snipe (more like H2)

    Indented Bon

    Everything colored
    Oh, I know. I just want to make sure that I also update the version that goes in my fileshare.
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    Post  Yoseph on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:46 pm

    Sultxn wrote:I know it puts you guys in a tough situation when people are suggesting 5sk. You don't want to ignore those people, but at the same time you know 4sk hasn't been tested enough. I just played my first 6 games of GoldPRO. While it felt quite different than what I'm used to, I can't say anything negative about it because I simply haven't played it enough yet. Over a year of "vanilla reach" gameplay is implanted into my head, and it will take time (and an open mind) to shed those old habits. Of course 4sk is going to play differently, but "different" is not the same as "wrong" or "bad."

    Definitely excited for v2. My thoughts...
    -I'd like to keep the 5 seconds of invincibility, with waypoint added. I got melted pretty good a couple times with that 1.66 oversheild, and didn't feel like it was overpowered. Theoretically, if the overshield guy runs into 2 guys, by the time he 4-shots one of them he will have eaten 8 shots and be below normal shields, allowing the other player to win the gunfight. This means an overshielded player could fight 1v2 and at least get a kill before dying. With only one extra layer of shields (ie 3 second invincibility), then if he ran into 2 guys, it's an even fight and he could potentially die without finishing one of them off.

    -I think faster weapon spawns is a good idea. With the speed this game plays at, and the speed kills are racked up, it seems sensible to speed up the power weapon cycling. Powerups too. It just felt like there were long breaks while waiting for the power items.
    Good post, thanks for understanding the difficulty of the situation. I think I can speak for everyone here and say that we are all pretty nice guys and we don't want to segregate anyone or make anyone unhappy. I don't like acting hard headed or anything but I know that it's the only way to make some progress and I think it's really important.

    I think the OS traits we have are necessary for the function we're trying to get out of it. If the invince is too much a further speed nerf should be implemented. I played with it on 75% movement and a Nav at one point and no one got a kill while invince, it actually became a handicap. We switched it to normal(120 speed) and it was fine with the Nav. I think 110 with Nav will be about perfect personally, maybe 100, these are our best options. I admit, none of it is really ideal, but letting the entire pace of the game get ruined by using as OS that doesn't do the function of an OS because the one that does is less than ideal will kill the pace of the game. And this is kinda hard to convey because I don't feel the ideal settings have been explored yet so I'm talking about ruining a theoretical game. I'll try to have something ready by tomorrow. Thanks again.
    Rev wrote:I would no make rockets spawn any more frequent than 2 min but lets really play a lot of v1 and test maps before we even talk v2

    I would love to test the maps but i literally have less than 20 friends(Just people that are actually my friends) and i need some new ones. I removed my entire list except 20 people...
    The thing is, v1 wasn't really meant to test anything. The OS was in stone and pretty much everone clammored for shotty. Removing evade was obvious and so was a better Sanc. The purpose of v1 was just to get the base player traits out there into familiar gametypes to we could start testing. Now it's time to test, what I'm interested in is weapon placement and sandbox expansion. When CEA maps come out we'll drop some quick test versions and try to get v2 up within a few weeks of its release. v3 will hopefully refine these settings and so on and so forth. This is actually kinda similar to what MLG did with v1 vs the rest.
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    Post  Yoseph on Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:08 pm

    aPK wrote:30 second respawn time is absolutely absurd. There is no reason for it to spawn any faster than 1 minute with no spare clips.

    Concussion Rifle is just terrible and breeds close to no smart gameplay while using it. The only option is to spam, and when you include the fact that it traps players, the weapon is a no-no.

    I'd also appreciate it if when you guys have suggestions to fix my version of Sanctuary, that you give me a heads up so that I can make changes.

    We're trying to test it in a non-powerup role. With a 4sk the snipe is definitely still useful but is it really something that a team that is trying to will will stick there neck out to obtain? While I feel 30s may be a bit fast the only real disadvantage of this is "littering the map" with weapons, this has not been a proven effect and isn't necessarily bad either. With the counter all 4sk DMR having a plethora of secondary options adds depth to the mental meta game and strategy overall. What's the big deal if there are weapons on the map if you're using DMR most of the time anyway and other weapons are only situational? BTW, I think 45s will likely be the best, but I want to test the extremes first.

    With the comment "the only option is to spam" you are referring exclusively to the firing of the gun, not the strategy involved in choosing when to use it. A: What weapon do you not fire at the fastest rof when you have your target in sight? Do you believe shooting slower than fastest possible is beneficial to the DMR or any other weapon. The only weapon I can think of is the pistol and that's only because its 8 shot clip makes you have to be conscious with your ammo. B: The concussion rifle is very situationaly useful and usually requires prediction of your opponent to be effective. It fills a role that hasn't been present in Halo since CE's Plasma Rifle. People complained that you couldn't fight back to that weapon either, but the thing is, that player almost always had to out-think you(or get very lucky) to kill you with it. The same can be said of the Concussion Rifle. It was never viable on 5sk because the utility weapon was not effective enough to force smart gameplay, the 4sk is and now the Concussion is probably the weapon with the most competitive merit currently not in competitive settings.

    I haven't been making changes personally. I'm not sold on being able to access ring 3 from cars though, I'd rather not have that and have cover on ring 3 to further empower it and the Jetpack. I love grass but the looks of the tops of the bases are off and I think some of the column placement or something like that seems wrong to me, I can't put my finger on it right now and if I figure it out later I'll let you know. But that's what I think.

    edit: sounds like good work Chef
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    Post  weezing on Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:30 pm

    1. I'd rather any OS used give a full 2 extra layers. Anything else just feels nerfed and hardly worth going for.

    2. Whatever, I think the 4 vs 5 SK thing is rather meaningless compared to some other potential dilemmas.

    3. Snipe, GL, and shotgun should have 1 minute spawns. Snipe with 1 extra clip, GL with 3 shots, shotgun with 1 extra clip. Rockets should be the only drop-spawn weapon.

    4. I like the Countdown change. Zealot functions fine as is (GL at holos, snipe at gold, shottie ring 1, OS ring 2). Nexus, Pit, and Sanc are all whatever, I'd rather they all be removed.

    5. Can't we just ditch Sanctuary?
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    Post  Sultxn on Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:07 am

    weezing wrote:1. I'd rather any OS used give a full 2 extra layers. Anything else just feels nerfed and hardly worth going for.

    Regarding a full 3x overshield:
    To get 2 full extra layers, the current custom OS would have to be bumped up from 5 seconds of invincibility to 10 seconds. That's a long time to be god-like, but I think we could work with that if we think outside the box.

    Ten seconds would give the player plenty of time to get a nice full 3x overshield. It would also give everyone plenty of time to take note of who got the overshield (if the player is gold and has a waypoint). However we can't let that player wreak havoc for those 10 seconds, and make a nasty charge without fear of repercussion.

    Possible nerfs for the 10 second period:
    -Slow him down considerably (90% movement? 75%? 50%?)
    -Not allow him to move at all (0% movement)
    -Not allow him to deal any damage (0% damage, 0% melee)
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    Post  aPK on Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:02 pm

    Yoseph wrote:What weapon do you not fire at the fastest rof when you have your target in sight?
    What weapon do players tend to spam the entire clip regardless of if they kill them with 4 or 5 shots?

    The problem with the Concussion Rifle is that 95% of engagements involving a Concussion Rifle degenerates to one person emptying his entire clip at the general vicinity of a player while that player helplessly gets pinned to a wall. That is not health gameplay. If you want to pin players to a wall with a weapon, why not include a Grav Hammer?
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    Post  Chef Linguini on Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:12 pm

    Sultxn wrote:
    weezing wrote:1. I'd rather any OS used give a full 2 extra layers. Anything else just feels nerfed and hardly worth going for.

    Regarding a full 3x overshield:
    To get 2 full extra layers, the current custom OS would have to be bumped up from 5 seconds of invincibility to 10 seconds. That's a long time to be god-like, but I think we could work with that if we think outside the box.

    Ten seconds would give the player plenty of time to get a nice full 3x overshield. It would also give everyone plenty of time to take note of who got the overshield (if the player is gold and has a waypoint). However we can't let that player wreak havoc for those 10 seconds, and make a nasty charge without fear of repercussion.

    Possible nerfs for the 10 second period:
    -Slow him down considerably (90% movement? 75%? 50%?)
    -Not allow him to move at all (0% movement)
    -Not allow him to deal any damage (0% damage, 0% melee)

    5 seconds is too long. 10 seconds is definitely too long. What you're suggesting is essentially remove the player from the game for 10 seconds. Imagine a player needing to stop a flag cap. OS is up but should he pick it up? Probably not because for 10 seconds he's just going to be a golden distraction.

    The 300% damage resistance OS is worth going for, especially when shield regen rate is unchanged.
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    Post  Sultxn on Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:27 am

    Chef Linguini wrote:5 seconds is too long. 10 seconds is definitely too long. What you're suggesting is essentially remove the player from the game for 10 seconds. Imagine a player needing to stop a flag cap. OS is up but should he pick it up? Probably not because for 10 seconds he's just going to be a golden distraction.

    The 300% damage resistance OS is worth going for, especially when shield regen rate is unchanged.

    How many shots does it take to kill a full-shield 300% player? I would think that since we are already using 150% resistance as our base trait, 300% would make you twice as hard to kill (8sk). But considering how screwy Bungie's settings are, I'm guessing it makes you much more than an 8 shot?

    EDIT

    Just tested it. 300% resistance makes you 8 headshots, or 13 bodyshots. Does everyone realize this? It seemed to me that several people wanted triple shields in an OS, back when we were talking about extra layers (meaning 12sk). Do we want a 12sk with this damage resistance thing as well? If so we need 450% (150% base trait multiplied by 3). But of course, we don't have that option. Next option is 500%, which I just found to be a 13sk or an astronomical 22 bodyshots.

    I realize that the 300% thing has the added benefit of recharging (meaning if you survive an encounter, you get to recharge to an 8sk yet again) so of course there is more power in that way. I guess that makes it comparable to a 12sk overshield. Only difference being with a 12sk overshield you can make a lot stronger of a push, rather than thinking about backing down to recharge.

    Sultxn
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    Post  Sultxn on Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:09 pm

    Sorry, I can't wait for a reply Smile ...

    More thoughts about OS...

    Regarding damage resistance:
    -If we set it to 300 resistance, we are essentially making it the same as MLG's powerup, in that you take twice as many shots to kill.
    -If we set it to 500, the player becomes just OVER triple strength, going from 4sk to 13sk. However at high level play, the player will probably get shot before picking up OS. But even so, he has potential to become a 13sk.

    Regarding "burning" OS:
    -The original OS, with 5 second invincibility, wasn't too bad to me in my limited playtime and mostly speculative point of view. However it seems to be a topic of debate. In my opinion it would be ideal to force the OS player to change colour, but this is impossible with the invince/charge-up OS.

    So how do we make the Damage-Resistance-OS less "burnable?"

    IDEA - We could make OS carrier immune to headshots. This makes it so that even if a player has no shields when grabbing OS, he will still take more shots than usual to kill (from the moment he grabs it).

    Examples:

    After getting shot 3 times, then grabbing OS:
    -300 damage resistance OS - 7 shots to kill
    -500 damage resistance OS - 12 shots to kill

    After getting perfectly frag-naded (which is slightly more damage than 3 shots), then grabbing OS:
    -300 damage resistance OS - 6 shots to kill
    -500 damage resistance OS - 9 shots to kill

    A full-shield and full-health OS carrier would be:
    -13 shots to kill (300 resistance)
    -22 shots to kill (500 resistance)

    Looking at this data...
    For the 500 resistance OS, 22 shots seems pretty excessive. But to counter this, we could slow down the shield recharge rate considerably. This would put huge emphasis on shooting the player before he grabs OS, to severely lessen his advantage upon grabbing it. Or we could use the pretty well-rounded 300 resistance OS, which would allow a player to grab it with no shields and still be able to eat about 5 shots, as well as potentially recharge up to a 13 shot.


    ANOTHER IDEA - We could make OS carrier immune to headshots, as well as have his SHIELDS DISABLED (No shields upon grabbing OS). The player has only his health, and with the proper damage resistance, we could tune this to a good OS.

    Examples:

    Full health OS carrier:
    -500 damage resistance OS - 9 shots
    -1000 damage resistance OS - 17 shots

    Looking at this data...
    9 shots isn't strong enough, and 17 is borderline too strong. Health packs would become very important for the OS carrier to grab, because they would instantly bring him back to full OS. A health pack could also be put right beside/under the OS so that the player could instantly fill their "OS." Health recharging could be enabled for OS carrier if desired, although the health charging system is strange (possibly in a good way... it doesn't fully recharge if your health is low).

    What I'm leaning towards...
    -300% damage resistance with headshots disabled. This is a 13 shot kill and an advantage even with low/no shields.
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    TheTrueHaloMaster
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    Post  TheTrueHaloMaster on Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:46 pm

    Sultxn wrote:Sorry, I can't wait for a reply Smile ...

    More thoughts about OS...

    Regarding damage resistance:
    -If we set it to 300 resistance, we are essentially making it the same as MLG's powerup, in that you take twice as many shots to kill.
    -If we set it to 500, the player becomes just OVER triple strength, going from 4sk to 13sk. However at high level play, the player will probably get shot before picking up OS. But even so, he has potential to become a 13sk.

    Regarding "burning" OS:
    -The original OS, with 5 second invincibility, wasn't too bad to me in my limited playtime and mostly speculative point of view. However it seems to be a topic of debate. In my opinion it would be ideal to force the OS player to change colour, but this is impossible with the invince/charge-up OS.

    So how do we make the Damage-Resistance-OS less "burnable?"

    IDEA - We could make OS carrier immune to headshots. This makes it so that even if a player has no shields when grabbing OS, he will still take more shots than usual to kill (from the moment he grabs it).

    Examples:

    After getting shot 3 times, then grabbing OS:
    -300 damage resistance OS - 7 shots to kill
    -500 damage resistance OS - 12 shots to kill

    After getting perfectly frag-naded (which is slightly more damage than 3 shots), then grabbing OS:
    -300 damage resistance OS - 6 shots to kill
    -500 damage resistance OS - 9 shots to kill

    A full-shield and full-health OS carrier would be:
    -13 shots to kill (300 resistance)
    -22 shots to kill (500 resistance)

    Looking at this data...
    For the 500 resistance OS, 22 shots seems pretty excessive. But to counter this, we could slow down the shield recharge rate considerably. This would put huge emphasis on shooting the player before he grabs OS, to severely lessen his advantage upon grabbing it. Or we could use the pretty well-rounded 300 resistance OS, which would allow a player to grab it with no shields and still be able to eat about 5 shots, as well as potentially recharge up to a 13 shot.


    ANOTHER IDEA - We could make OS carrier immune to headshots, as well as have his SHIELDS DISABLED (No shields upon grabbing OS). The player has only his health, and with the proper damage resistance, we could tune this to a good OS.

    Examples:

    Full health OS carrier:
    -500 damage resistance OS - 9 shots
    -1000 damage resistance OS - 17 shots

    Looking at this data...
    9 shots isn't strong enough, and 17 is borderline too strong. Health packs would become very important for the OS carrier to grab, because they would instantly bring him back to full OS. A health pack could also be put right beside/under the OS so that the player could instantly fill their "OS." Health recharging could be enabled for OS carrier if desired, although the health charging system is strange (possibly in a good way... it doesn't fully recharge if your health is low).

    What I'm leaning towards...
    -300% damage resistance with headshots disabled. This is a 13 shot kill and an advantage even with low/no shields.

    Great post. Thank you. Very very important analysis. Did you post this in the MLG thread? You should asap.
    Sultxn
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    Post  Sultxn on Sat Oct 29, 2011 1:49 pm

    Yeah already did man
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    Smacky_Smacky

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    Post  Smacky_Smacky on Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:52 pm

    I think in Slayer gametypes the OS can have the 5 second waypoint and invincibility but in flag or other objective gametypes this should be removed and the OS should be burnable, otherwise these five seconds could be used to hold the oddball completely uncontested or to take part in a flag run of some kind. I would rather have the OS be burnt than have it be abused in an objective setting.
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    TheTrueHaloMaster
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    Post  TheTrueHaloMaster on Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:28 pm

    Smacky_Smacky wrote:I think in Slayer gametypes the OS can have the 5 second waypoint and invincibility but in flag or other objective gametypes this should be removed and the OS should be burnable, otherwise these five seconds could be used to hold the oddball completely uncontested or to take part in a flag run of some kind. I would rather have the OS be burnt than have it be abused in an objective setting.

    A lot of people are calling for MLG's dmg resistance powerup set at 300% (no shield recharge perhaps?). We will work on that for v2. Great having you stop by by the way!

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